Loss of Private Yacht Bayesian.

[Dartskipper]

After the sudden loss of the large sailing yacht Bayesian this past week, there has been the usual wild speculation of the cause on the various social media platforms. Until a full enquiry has been carried out, there won't be a definite answer to all the questions. There are some quite professionally produced threads about the private yacht scene on You Tube, but they have kept well away from the more spectacular suggestions, as well as some that are frankly idiotic.

Speaking from personal experience of various private and racing yachts during the 1970's, and having kept up to date with modern developments since then, the one thing I don't ever recall seeing or being mentioned on many yachts up to about 200 ft in length is a watertight bulkhead. I had a lot of experience of the various converted "B" Class Fairmile ML's that were licensed to carry over 200 passengers, and all of them kept the five watertight bulkheads that they had installed when they were built. The Fairmile "B" Class were 112ft in length, and their smaller 72 ft long sisters, the former HDML's, also had about 5 watertight bulkheads. However most of the fairly large (in those days!) motor cruisers and motor sailers I saw did not appear to have such bulkheads, the vessels seeming to favour large open spaces for the below decks accommodation. I certainly did not see any watertight doors.

The images published of the Bayesian seem to show large cabins and a saloon below decks, with what may be a watertight bulkhead at the entrance to the crew accommodation, and another at one end of the engine room. Do any members have any thoughts on this subject?

[Malcolm G]

The thought of watertight bulkheads also occured to me. I have to say that I made the same assumption that they were probably fore and aft of the passenger stateroom accommodation.
I have now had a poke arround the internet and found this webpage:
https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/lu...ian-layout.htm
From this it appears that they are aft of the foc'sle and then nothing until the engine room, which seems to have bulkheads fore and aft with access through the aft to the technical area.

What is known, and reported as fact, are:
The anchor was dragging 16minutes before the sinking.
There was a power outage 15 minutes before the sinking.
The crew, apart from the cook, were all up and about.

A representative of the builders has said that human error must be involved and the vessel should have survived a full knock down. - but he would wouldn't he?

My personal speculation at this time - When the power failed the engineer, assuming they have one, would have made haste to the engine room. What route would he take? Maybe in his haste he failed to shut things behind him...

There are some quite large doors from the decks to the accommodation. Plenty large enough for downflooding if left open.

It will no doubt be a few months before we know anything concrete.

[Malcolm G]

Meanwhile - the Reverend Thomas Bayes is turning in his grave…

[Dartskipper]

I steered clear of commenting about the crew's actions, but my very first thought was "Why no anchor watch?"

[Varley]

My wonder is elsewhere although I agree all accident causes are interesting and all deaths sad, but:

In the time the press and authorities have been preoccupied with Bayesian I wonder how many merchant sailors worldwide have died 'in service' but 'out of mind', as it were. The fuss seems unproportionate.

[rustytrawler]

Eyup Varley, i think that it's all about the money, if it had been skint fishermen that had died you would have to scour the net to find any info.

[Engine Serang]

I would expect contributors to these pages to accept the fact that any incident involving the "Rich and Famous", will attract the attention of the popular (gutter) press. Such is life and the Bayesian is a godsend in the silly season of August.
In the small print on page15 we read that the MAIB has dispatched 3 investigators to Palermo , this act will give comfort to the survivors and the NOK of those drowned. My experience of the MAIB is that they are professional, neutral, thorough and penetrating, no oul tabloid guff will be listened to and an impressive report will be produced.

Speaking of guff, skint fishermen that had died, just read a couple of investigations on the MAIB Website, enough said.

[Malcolm G]

As I said elsewhere;
The ‘Rich and Famous’ was likely unknown to most people before this casualty. The media having to call him ‘the British Bill Gates’ just so that we are aware that he was Rich and Famous.

[expiloter]

He and his colleagues had made a number of big enemies over the past couple of years, some unforgiving. Odd how this particular, well found yacht and no others went down so suddenly and most of the crew were safe on exactly the same day his right hand man was "knocked down" and killed. Just saying.

[Engine Serang]

Originally Posted by expiloter

He and his colleagues had made a number of big enemies over the past couple of years, some unforgiving. Odd how this particular, well found yacht and no others went down so suddenly and most of the crew were safe on exactly the same day his right hand man was "knocked down" and killed. Just saying.

If I and my colleagues had made a number of big enemies over the past couple of years, some unforgiving I would not be sailing my yacht anywhere near the Naples- Sicily-Palermo archipelago. Just to be on the safe side.

[expiloter]

Originally Posted by Engine Serang

If I and my colleagues had made a number of big enemies over the past couple of years, some unforgiving I would not be sailing my yacht anywhere near the Naples- Sicily-Palermo archipelago. Just to be on the safe side.

This is too true but in this case the "enemies" had nothing to do with the big "M".
Forgotten who it was who said "There is no such thing as a coincidence".

[Tomvart]

Originally Posted by Engine Serang

In the small print on page15 we read that the MAIB has dispatched 3 investigators to Palermo , this act will give comfort to the survivors and the NOK of those drowned. My experience of the MAIB is that they are professional, neutral, thorough and penetrating, no oul tabloid guff will be listened to and an impressive report will be produced.

My old CO of HMS York Captain Andy Moll, is the Chief Inspector of Marine Accidents at MAIB, I would expect nothing else ES.

He was an outstanding Captain, he didn't suffer fools - being strict but fair, a very talented warfighter - having earned his spurs (and a Mention in Dispatches) as an FC during the Falklands conflict in HMS Coventry, he was also an excellent seaman and man manager, probably the best CO I had served under in the RN.

Every morning when York was at sea, he would don a set of blue working overalls (not white like most of the commissioned officers those days) and informally walk alone through every compartment onboard 'checking' on his ship and chatting & joking with the lads, often stopping off for a brew in the messdecks.

A sad day for the RN when he decided to leave - he would have made a good Admiral.

[Makko]

Originally Posted by expiloter

This is too true but in this case the "enemies" had nothing to do with the big "M".
Forgotten who it was who said "There is no such thing as a coincidence".

Or that other famous saying:

"A secret is something shared by three people and two of them are dead!"

Rgds.
Dave

[Engine Serang]

In the navy "Confidential meant telling one person at a time."

[Malcolm G]

Further to my #2 above, if I may:

The ship did have an engineer, His name is Tim Parker Eaton and he is British.
Apparently what he told the Italian Authorities has been 'leaked' to Italian media.
Part of which is: 'I activated the generators and the hydraulic pump for the rudder.'When asked crucially if all portholes and hatches, including where the yacht's tender was kept, were closed he replied: 'Everything was shut. The only thing open was the hatch to the engine room which from my point of view would not have caused the disaster because it was at the other end from where the yacht went down.'

[Dartskipper]

In reply to Malcolm's post above, when I was on the smaller (76ft) ketch "Orcella" we experienced a sudden influx of water below the waterline when entering the Windward Passage bewteen Cuba and Haiti in 1975. (We were on our way from Fort Lauderdale to the Panama Canal.)
One of the crew reported that his toilet wasn't flushing properly. A quick inspection showed that it was being emptied, but there was no seawater flushing the bowl. A quick dash into the engine room, situated beneath the main saloon, and looking under the deck boards showed a seawater intake hose adrift, and seawater pouring into the bilge. (The Dutch builders had used flexible armoured hoses for seawater intake and discharge, and it was the only occasion when a connection failed.) We hove to and rapidly reconnected and secured the hose, and commenced returning the Caribbean Sea from our bilges to back where it belonged. So, a yacht can suffer sudden influxes of ocean in more ways than an open hatch or window.

I'm certain that the official enquiry will discover exactly what happened, but I just wanted to show that obvious conjecture isn't necessarily correct.

[Malcolm G]

Totally agree Roy.
As I said, mine was just personal speculation expressed openly.
We will have to wait until the wreck is raised and inspected.

To clarify the mention of the tender by the Engineer - it is stowed in a compartment forward on the starboard side.