HMAS Adelaide disabled on relief mission.

[Varley]

Ah. Now we have the root of the problem. The foremost maker of Self Igniting Switchboards. Tulip connectors better sold in a florist.

(No, they were still in business well after SCR based Shaft Generator inverters where I first came across them in power format. However E-S may have a good line. I think both Siemens and AEG employed capacitors where the individual 'plates' had an internal fuse so in normal use they failed gracefully and could be monitored by periodically measuring their overall impedance).

[Engine Serang]

My direct experience of electrical propulsion is limited to being shown around the engine room of a couple of Texaco T2's in the early 1970's but I readily acknowledge todays electric propulsion is far more powerful, far more compact and supported by far more sensitive switchgear. One can but wonder if the quest for efficiency, economy and automation has raced ahead of the infrastructure to support it.
And I am not a Luddite.

[Varley]

I don't know about sensitive switchgear as an enabling technology although I remember the earlier SCR SGs' DC links had special SC protection (both the expert makers later 'simply' killed the inverter or rectifier rather than tripped the DC circuit). Engineers take pride in making for 10 bob what any fool can knock up for a fiver but, like SOLAS they are no longer satisfied with the milk, cream and butter but want the whey too. To this end they have developed breakers that can anticipate where a rising current would otherwise end and so interrupt it at a lower level. Goody, goody we can now reduce the cost to nine Shillings eleven and three farthings, but what happens if the breaker fails to open? The scantlings now might not survived the fault with worse consequences.

Whilst not sailing with electrical propulsion I did have a few in the fleet - all, bar two, asynchronous motors. One which used synchronous motors but with conventional pony motor starting (perhaps strange is better in this context) with no nasty high rise times so no unusual problem with harmonics.

The remaining odd man out was DC drive. Poorly designed with SCR based converter from a dedicated propulsion alternator as if it was a shore based arrangement with no control over the supply (much less demanding and economic would have been to control the excitation of the dedicated propulsion alternator and have a simple rectifier). But I digress. It was so noisy, especially at half power where then switched voltage was maximum, that it basically needed smoothing to iron out the spikes as you mother's radio would have had only bigger, of course (that is bigger smoothing circuit not bigger mother you will understand).

Although accused of being a Luddite I am not, either (well, I don't think so). I think Victorian describes me better with more emphasis on not getting into trouble than having so much regulation around how one gets out of it.

[Engine Serang]

From todays London Evening Standard;;

All six Royal Navy destroyers in port for engine repairs amid heightened tensions with Russia
The Defence Select Committee warned in December 2021 that availability of the ships was a ‘major cause for concern’

One hopes The Commissioners for Exercising the Office of Lord High Admiral of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland do not take umbrage at one tossing a few pebbles at the R N.


On a positive note Fred's You Bend Them, we Mend Them, down the road from here has a huge amount of big radiators that would suit a Type 45.

[Makko]

Very interesting discussion.

I am too, not a Luddite, neither am I a "Victorian" like Varley. In my humble opinion, the brains and experience have been dropped from the equation. In my experience, and line of work, there are too many Gizmo Geniuses out there who haven't a clue about the operational requirements of systems. Yes, I am certainly curmudgeonly on this issue!

One claim for a reheater fan - Fancy touch screen system, checked set-points, alarms, shut down criteria. "Can I see the operational curve for the fan, please".

Operational temperature 400F by design, operational temperature touch screen system 400C!

Oops! Creeping, cracking of the material and finally, catastrophic failure.

Its all down to the details and, every day, there are less of us and more of them!

At least, in our time, with analogic, hardwired systems and only "fancy" digital add-ons, we had to learn the basics of control and protection.

Now you download an RS catalogue, drool a bit and choose a "plug and play" component. None of that full system integration!

;-(

Rgds.
Dave

[YM-Mundrabilla]

Experience!

What's that?

Is it related to 'corporate knowledge'?

If so it's all been replaced by a string of Mickey Mouse degrees from here to the station.

None of the foregoing cynicism is relevant anyway as decisions will be based on 'it's cheap = it's good'; no need for redundancy. All of which will be specified by some bean counter, bureaucrat or other 'inexperienced' person.

On the other hand it may be 'gee whizz' (meaning untried) when it will be specified by someone who is either on the take or with a degree in gee whizz.

Sorry just feeling a bit cynical and neanderthal this morning.

[Makko]

I am in the same state, YM!

In the "old days", you had to do workshop time, practical work in the drydocks, "working by". Yes, loads of OND/HND study. That is why that route was "looked down" on: A TECHNICAL CAREER.

Then sea time, "doing the job". I have been frequently annoyed and irritated by "new people" with, what they claim, is superior knowledge/solutions!

First, get your hands dirty, then apply the knowledge (as a tool) to solve the problem. It is a definition that I have ground into my daughters with their university educations,"Knowledge, when used as a tool, is Intelligence!".

Old curmudgeonly rant! I want my dinner!

Rgds.
Dave

[Varley]

I cannot agree entirely. Obviously one would want a joiner to be adequate in both learning and practice. However practice and improvement one hopes in that practise is part of what being on the job is all about whereas gaining the underpinning knowledge is something usually and certainly more easily done in the classroom from where, one hopes, released on unsuspecting machinery is not allowed unless tested. Given two options of unschooled but trained to schooled but untrained I would choose the latter. Experience we have always had available in spades and expect it to be imparted with the wage packet.

Were the level of learning required to be a good technician difficult then yours truly would not have been that thing. Whatever depth those essentials may have to be learned is not the point the key is in the word essential. I like to think the technician is the one with a wide if not enormously deep knowledge of the theory and the engineer one who has a deep but specialised knowledge. The same area under the curve but a different shape. Both fully equal to the jobs just not the same job. Also the quip. A good technician is left to run and maintain when the engineer is 'gone on' however well or badly his last job turned out.

[Engine Serang]

Jesus V you might as well of typed your last #58 in Serbo Croat. And you did not recommend any training for the Artisan. Probably the joiner.

[Varley]

On the contrary I said when the choice was restricted to paper or monkey see , monkey do I would choose paper.

Obviously I would take someone with both experience and education above either (although someone must give the starters their start) but they tend to be more expensive.

(Yes, sorry, I could have done with a few more full stops but was hurrying for my lift to the shopping).

[Engine Serang]

Off to Dunnes Stores.

Or buy a Peleton to cycle to the stores.

In my time 69/70 apprentices were no longer making tea and running to the bookies for their first year, I'm not sure when that ended, and serving 5 years to and with a tradesman who may have been a tasty worker or a complete bodger. Apprenticeships still had to be completed by the age of 21. Why?
Off the job training was part of the scheme and City and Guilds was the external standards body. You started at T1 and could work your way up the ladder to T5 which many equated to HNC/HND. So the determined tradesman had a clear route to becoming an engineer.

[kauvaka]

HMAS Adelaide is probably still in Tonga. There is a warship anchored off in the harbour and whilst other warships come and go from Vuna Wharf this one stays on the hook although she was alongside when she first arrived. I give no guarantee it's her as she's too far out for me to see her number. There is another warship silhouette at anchor on the horizon today. I wish warships displayed their names on bow and stern.

[YM-Mundrabilla]

Is it big and ugly?

I will ask a Chinese mate.

[Malcolm G]

Check AIS - satellite only, so no full ID
currently showing three ‘SAR/Military’ targets offshore, two anchored one moving.

[YM-Mundrabilla]

My spies tell me:

'... HMAS Adelaide is still at anchor (non operational) at Nuku Alofa anchorage about 3NM north of the main port on Tongatapu. She’s there with HMAS Arunta and Barwon. The cable layer Reliance is also there having returned from fixing the broken cable.' ...

[kauvaka]

Ah,right, malo. Have you seen any ships, armed or commercial built in recent years which are not big and ugly? initial media reports showed pics of troops boarding HMAS Adelaide prior to departing Australia, They must be bored stiff unless they are doing boarding/disembarking exercises out in the harbour, there are two landing craft in the vicinity each day. Adelaide is anchored in a good fishing/swimming/diving pozzie. Kia ora.

[Engine Serang]

Well you don't need the brains of an Archbishop to work out what the squaddies are doing ashore or Jolly Jack either.

[Jolly Jack]

I say!!

JJ.

[kauvaka]

ALL vessels are in quarantine whilst here, no shore leave. Tonga Defence Force and Police staffing road blocks during lockdown hours, I think they are 1800 hrs - 0600 hrs. don't go out myself at night, frightened the bogey man will get me. Not even the churches operate. Don't see any ginger or blue suits about town so they must be confined to ship. Good bronzy weather though but without power it must be hot inboard. I hope those landing craft are taking tham plenty of fresh fruit, not a lot of fresh veggies about, they took a pounding from the ash rain, Regarding the "ash". I would describe it as grit, the stuff they used to put on UK icy roads, it's black, more course and heavier than sand. Supposed to be good for the garden. I seem to have two banana trees surviving, fortunately the mango and avocado season for me had finished a couple of days prior to the eruption, I have one of each tree, I did lose my grape plant and my three citrus trees which had young fruit but leaves are now sprouting so I will have to wait until next year.

[Engine Serang]

Originally Posted by Jolly Jack

I say!!

JJ.

You're in danger of giving Nobby and Dusty a good name.

[Jolly Jack]

Originally Posted by Engine Serang

You're in danger of giving Nobby and Dusty a good name.

I suppose you had to say something....as always!

JJ.

[Malcolm G]

@ kauvaka

Thanks for the update. A small glimpse of how things are out there.
Media on this side of the planet forgot about you after the normal nine days.

What is the quarantine situation? Do goods and aid get ashore without too much hindrance?

[kauvaka]

Thanks Malcolm. To my mind there is a lot of drama relating to the aid and other goods coming here. The only shortage is a lack of fresh veggies, the crops were destroyed by the acidic shower. For those who know Nuku'alofa, navy ships from a number of countries berth at Vuna Wharf and unload their cargoes there using Tonga Defence Force staff whilst cargo vessels, usually container ships berth and discharge at Queen Salote Wharf. Labour is the usual wharfies. Containers are unstuffed at the wharf sheds and the contents are held for 48 hrs before being released to addressees. No duty or consumption taxes are being charged on aid type goods including foodstuffs. Commercial goods are removed in their containers and taken to wholesalers and so on for unstuffing. There does not appear to be any shortage of foodstuffs in the stores but smaller stores, often PRC owned, are probably feeling the pinch due to the gift shipments. A niece of mine living in NZ asked me what I would like her to send me in a drum she was sending to family here. The only thing I could think of was a cheap bottle of wine. Hope it arrives soon. Malcolm, thank you for your interest.

[Malcolm G]

Thanks for the update - Sounds all well organised.
What part is HMAS Adelaide, and her crew, playing?

[Engine Serang]

ABC report that two Chinese ships are approaching Tonga, the Wuzhishan an amphibious transport dock and Chaganhu afast combat support ship. Both are carrying aid cargo. Are they being good neighbours? Meanwhile the Adelaide remains in trouble and a RAN Admiral stated that it was believed volcanic dust and debris in the water caused the overheating.
I feel for the MEO and his merry men probably working 6 on, 6 off and little comfort topside to cool down but they shouldn't have joined...................,