Question regarding the sale of used ships.

[SJB]

When the history of ships are recounted here this often includes a lot of diferent owners, sometimes there are but a few moths betwen one and the next. And this goes way back in the times before the telegraph. So how did a potential buyer and-buyer searching owner get in touch? How did the eventual shipbroker operate in, say 1860? Did they send letters around, did they post the information on a blackboard in the captain's club in the big ports? In short - were there an organized marketplace?

[Tomvart]

I cant say for other countries Stein but in the 1850-60's in the UK, all ships had to be registered with the government (Board of Trade), this was done by the port region and information was collated by the Harbour Master and documented and archived with the board of trade, the information made up a somewhat haphazard national registry of ships - by way of a huge paper database of ships, type of ship and sailing rigs they used, cargo carried, and most importantly for the purpose of sale - the Master & Owners names & location.
I am happy to share a few examples of ships registration documents and crew agreement from one of my ancestors during this period if that would help?
Please PM me with your email address and I will send the details.

Ships for sale in the UK normally appeared in local port newspapers and in local nautical publications such as Turnbulls/Christies annual Shipping registers, or similar Lloyds publications.

I think you can see some annual Turnbulls registers online, heres a link to the 1856 one.

[SJB]

Thanks a lot. No I am not searching for the history of a particular ship, I just found myself wondering how it was done. something you have answered very satisfactorily. Of course the shipowners also had to get freights for their ships, and before telegraphs and telephones the captain was endowed with power to do this when far from home, ad so it would be natural for him to inform the owner if he heard of a good buy among ships offered for sale The situation may be different for the British, whose trade were largely domestic, even on the other side of the world. And whose ships were quite often first owned. But as soon as was possible, the Norwegian shipowners probably got hold of the publications you mention. Vwery interesting that Turnbulls Register, I had never heard of it before now.

[Harry Nicholson]

Thank you, Tomvart. I looked at the Turnbull's of 1956 and discovered several of my wife's family listed as masters and owners of Robin Hood's Bay. That will fill out her Skerry and Storm family tree a bit more.
Harry

[Varley]

'Used' ships? I know we are supposed to refer to an ocean lady now as 'it' instead of the culturally proper 'she' but 'used' makes them sound rather like expended prophylactics.

[SJB]

So what is your preferred terminology here? Would secondhand do?. What about thirdhand, fourth and so on? I searched my Roget's backwards and forwards, but could not find anything nicer. Besides, even a Rolls Royce that is not new they sell on the "used car market." Sing along with Barbara then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCtrcAp3TEY

[Tomvart]

Originally Posted by SJB

Thanks a lot. No I am not searching for the history of a particular ship, I just found myself wondering how it was done. something you have answered very satisfactorily. Of course the shipowners also had to get freights for their ships, and before telegraphs and telephones the captain was endowed with power to do this when far from home, ad so it would be natural for him to inform the owner if he heard of a good buy among ships offered for sale The situation may be different for the British, whose trade were largely domestic, even on the other side of the world. And whose ships were quite often first owned. But as soon as was possible, the Norwegian shipowners probably got hold of the publications you mention. Vwery interesting that Turnbulls Register, I had never heard of it before now.

I was going to share the registration documentation just so you could see how each ship was registered Stein, I am happy that I managed to answer your question!

From about 1860 each merchant ship in the UK was also given a Port Registration Number (or PRN), for the local port it was registered at, then for each successive voyage it also had to have crew agreements, this document listed the crew names, rates held during the voyage, pay and allowances alongside (and if the crew member died (or survived) on the voyage), it also detailed the route and ultimate discharge port, these were also Board of Trade documents and many of them are still available from a number of archives - some of them are very interesting historically.

[Tomvart]

Originally Posted by Harry Nicholson

Thank you, Tomvart. I looked at the Turnbull's of 1956 and discovered several of my wife's family listed as masters and owners of Robin Hood's Bay. That will fill out her Skerry and Storm family tree a bit more.
Harry

Happy to help Harry - you're welcome!

[Dave McGouldrick]

#5 #6


'Pre-loved ' perhaps

[Malcolm G]

'Previously owned' seems to be in common usage, but most people understand that the previous owner used it and therefore, by definition, it is 'used'.